Hip Hop is diverse and has a variety of different sounds and influences compared to many genres just like rock music does. Do you feel that the lack of definitive sub-genres in hip hop has had more of a positive or a negative effect on how hip hop is viewed?
— theloungeblog
Well, first off, who are we talking about that is viewing hip hop? I’m going to assume you’re talking about the masses who may not be involved in the culture at all.
I don’t think the lack of easily definable sub-genres has anything to do with how hip hop is viewed. Hip hop has plenty of sub-genres. I think the problem is artists rarely ever coin these sub-genres. Critics and fans do. The artists just sit back and make whatever music they feel like making. The critics and fans are the ones who are so bent on having some concrete term for the music they’re listening to. Whether it’s indie rap, backpack rap, boom bap rap, swag rap, conscious rap, noise rap, it’s all rap. I don’t think the fact that Brother Ali is not separated from Lil B by a plastic card in the record store has any effect, positive or negative, on how the culture is viewed by anyone.
Same goes for rock & roll. I doubt bands set out with the purpose of being labeled shit like glam rock, pop rock, indie rock, hard rock, etc. These stupid terms can’t really be nailed down to a science anyway. There’s no formula saying that “pop rock has to sound exactly like this otherwise it must be hard rock.” Again it’s just critics and fans doing this shit.
It might be a little different with metal bands. Some metal bands set out to specifically be involved in a certain part of the metal world. I think this aspect really applies to black metal bands. Some of them set out to play traditional first wave black metal like Venom or Bathory. Some of them set out to emulate the second wave of black metal like Darkthrone, Mayhem, Satyricon, Emperor, etc. Typically, with these types of bands, they have no desire to deviate from the formula that was created by those original bands. Therefore, there would be no need for a sub-genre there. However, people still find a way to sub-categorize it by labeling it “traditional black metal”, “cult/cvlt black metal” or “pure black metal.” Then you have bands like Krallice, Enslaved, Panopticon, Agalloch, etc. who set out to just play what they feel like playing. Death metal has the same thing going on. Some set out to play the same type of death metal that was created by the pioneers of the genre, while others feel the need to experiment and incorporate other types of music into their own. Does that make the music better or worse? That’s all up to the listener. But does it change the way the parent genre is viewed? I sincerely doubt it.
I really don’t think sub-genres are important. All they do is help you categorize bands to either dismiss them by saying shit like “I don’t listen to blah blah music”, praise them by saying shit like “I only listen to blah blah music” or describe them by saying “they sound like blah blah music.” Personally, I think the last is the only acceptable reason to focus on sub-genres. If you play a certain type of music and you want to describe it to me, it’s cool to use certain terminology to accomplish that. But, even then, half the time people use the wrong terminology to describe something. To be honest, I think a lot of the reason people focus on sub-genres is to make themselves sound smarter than someone else because they labeled an artist something that other people may not be familiar with causing them to say “what’s that?.” Then you have the pleasure of explaining it to them. You call something “anarcho-punk” while someone else calls it “crust-punk” while someone else calls it “grindcore” while someone else calls it “d-beat.” Who fucking cares? Just listen to the damn music.
All-in-all, I really don’t see how having easily recognizable sub-genres benefits hip hop, or music in general, as a whole. It’s mostly viewed by the actions of its audience. Not the titles thrown at it.
The idea of sub genres could be good or bad. It could pigeonhole the artist, or make them do very well. I ask myself, “Is it good to have “mass appeal” with casual fans, or have a mass of devoted fans in specific circle?” Who really knows. I believe it could be used as a tool to help define various subcultures so people can have a more defined way to decide if they want to be in it or not. For example,a person whose into snowboarding may like a different type of hip hop verses people who fit into (insert sub culture here). The snowboarder might want to cross over into said sub culture and vice versa. He or she could use that to decide where they need to start just by listening to the music. Maybe sub genres allow more “culture clubbing”, and that’s why a lot of people don’t like hip hop. It’s kind of a way to keep the overall culture somewhat hidden. For example, the culture clubber could say “I want to see what this rap thing is about” so they do a Google search and come up with various links. They could either end up clicking something between a bizarre parody, or ICP, which could turn them off completely, or they could end up enjoying their fall into the rabbit hole of hip hip culture.
btw ….. love your you tube channel too ….. your insight always makes me go hmmm?
idk if this is me saying we should have subgenres, but i think people need to stop looking for the same things when determining if they like an artist. What i mean is when i listen to Devin The Dude, i wanna just lay back and relax, which is alot different than when i want to listen to Billy Woods. Interpret that however you like
I think this question was more related to the negative stigmas which surround hip hop due to the sub genres such as the gloryfing of gang culture and violence in gangster rap and the glorifying of taking and selling drugs within trap music. I can understand what the question was about but i think it was worded in the wrong way .
Personally i think certain aspects of hip hop music/culture have overshadowed others in the past few years leaving people who don’t follow hip hop culture to think that hip hop is all one way without fully understanding or learning about the different varieties of sub genres hip hop has. I know that one reason hip hop is in the shape it is is because most casual hip hop fans only look what being played on the radio/whatever tracks Vevo are promoting on you tube and 90% of stuff which is promoted on mainstream radio which is hip hop is ignorant trap music, then these same casual fans will either love it or claim that they want real hip hop back or that hip hop is dead despite the style of hip hop that they like still being made just not on a mainstream scale.
The problem is unlike rock and metal, most people don’t call hip hop sub-genres by there name they just refer to the music as hip hop. i think the mainstream needs to do a better job of promoting a variety of hip hop on the radio instead of a small segment/sub genre 90% of the time. why this needs to happen is because it will limit the view that most casual fans of the music have is that hip hop has become an ignorant cheap quality form of music. if the mainstream audience saw more positive sides to hip hop, we wouldn’t have as many issues with the hip hop culture as many common things people associate with hip hop music & culture (degrading lyrics towards to women,violent lyrics,gang related) would be only identified with certain sub genres/cultures of hip hop and not hip hop as a whole.
i feel sub-genres help because they help people find the sound that there looking for within a specific genre. for example people always talk about wanting real hip hop. what is real hip hop?? what defines a hip hop track?? are chief keef & death grips any less of a hip hop artist then talib kweli and mos def or is flo rida or pitbull any less of a hip hop artist then jay z and kanye?? are red one & young chop less of hip hop producers then dj premier or 9th wonder?? is hip hop defined by the rhyming over a beat or the tempo of the tracks.
Personally I feel hip hop has to be defined because at the end of the day people like different aspects of hip hop but for such a broad genre/culture to be coined under one term confuses people. take rock for example, aren’t metal & punk just subgenres of rock music?? they both have the same elements (drums, guitar, vocalists) why not just call them rock. i couldnt tell you the difference (im sure myke c town will probably slate me for this one if hes sees this comment), but i can respect there is a difference between punk and metal if i took the time to listen to both genres.
Personally i feel for hip hop to grow i feel they need some sub genres just like house music(garage,deep house, electro) and rock or in that instance why dont they just have no genres and call everything music. I feel having sub-genres in hip hop wpuld be a benefit as this way these subgenres can grow into there own entities still under the hip hop umbrella.
I would say it’s detrimental more than anything. Not only does it make music one-dimensional, as the above poster mentioned, but it also wrongly represents the music and artist for the most part (sometimes denigrating it).
Whether it’s Debussy complaining about being called an Impressionist or Tyler the Creator complaining about being labeled horror-core, sub-genres have always worked against better artists attempting to achieve something original and creative in their work.
It has always been my experience that the harder it is to categorize a musician/group, the better they end up being anyways (Death Grips, Tom Waits, etc.).
I think sub genres are important just because they are helpful. If I really like one the sound of one band (ex. psychedelic, wavy, whatever) or in this case rapper, all I gotta do is look up the sub genre to find other rappers that have that similar sound.
Sub genres can kinda make music one-dimensional, but sometimes that’s all I wanna listen to that day lol